What do you think of this antenna setup?

[Binford]

Okay, here's what I'm thinking of going with, antenna-wise:

Winegard HD-7082P mounted on a 10-foot mast atop my 30-foot-high roof, putting it about 40 feet above ground level. (Actually, it would be on probably a 16-foot mast atop the 24-foot-high garage roof supported with a U-strap on the house roof gable end frame, putting the antenna about 10 feet above the house roof peak.)

Antenna mounted on a Channel Master 9521A rotator atop the mast.

Maybe or maybe not a pre-amp? If so, anyone got a brand or model recommendation? It wouldn't be needed for most of the channels, but I would lean toward wanting one to help bring in some weaker and/or more distant channels for fun. But would that negatively affect the reception of the stronger signals we'd mainly be watching?

The antenna would be hooked up to just the one TV in the living room on the bottom floor of the 2-story house. There is a run of cable presently in the attic at the rooftop antenna area that runs to the living room. (There is a separate run of cable to the master bedroom on the 2nd story that I don't intend to hook up, but will leave the option for resale value purposes.)

The house is built at near the top of a 400-foot hill and is surrounded by 50- to 60-foot fir trees about 60 or 70 feet from the house. No other taller buildings or hills for hundreds of yards. Just a bunch of trees. Location is 47.5186 N; 122.7116 W. Port Orchard, 98367.

We do not have an HDTV at this time, but plan to get a ~55" LCD this Christmas (I'll ask for suggestions in another post!) Currently we are using a 30" analog Toshiba 30HF84. Signal is run from our home made TV-top UHF antenna through a Panasonic DMR-EZ485V DVD/VHS player/recorder with built-in digital tuner.

My primary TV reception goal is to receive strong, uninterrupted local signals from the main network broadcasters in the area (transmitting from two basic directions) with a secondary goal of playing around with receiving some of the weaker local signals and more distant transmissions.

So does my antenna choice and setup make sense for this? What do you think?

[tigerbangs]

I think that you are absolutely on the right track: one suggestion, however; since you don't have any low-band VHF channels (digital channels 2-6) you can probably substitute a Winegard HD-7696P for the HD-7082p, and save a small amount of antenna width without sacrificing any performance. The Sea-Tac stations are pretty strong where you are, and that will be PLENTY of antenna without resorting to a preamplifier. You WILL want a rotator to see KCPQ-DT, the FOX channels, which is in a different direction that are the other Sea-Tac stations. Otherwise, I think that you are going to do very well with that combination.

[Binford]

[Y]ou can probably substitute a Winegard HD-7696P for the HD-7082p, and save a small amount of antenna width without sacrificing any performance.

Ahhhh.... I see what you mean. That'd save a LOT of antenna width! (53" vs 110") But is there any chance the lower VHF channels may be reassigned to some TV stations at some point in the future? Or are those frequencies slated to be used for other services?

The Sea-Tac stations are pretty strong where you are, and that will be PLENTY of antenna without resorting to a preamplifier.

A pre-amp would be good for playing around with a little TV DXing, no? They're not all that much money, so unless there is a negative for using one, I'd prefer to go with a pre-amp for that. Do you see any downside to having a pre-amp when you already have strong local stations?

Thanks for your insights, tigerbangs!

-- Tim Taylor KE7VRR

[tigerbangs]

I would NOT expect any stations to appear on the low-band channels in Sea-Tac, as channels 2-6 have proved to be very poor choices for digital broadcasting due to interference from FM stations and other types. As for a preamplifier, if you choose one, pick a high-input preamp that won't overload in the face of strong local stations, like a Winegard HDP-269.

[Binford]

One last question about preamps: Would it work to install it and just not plug it in unless I'm trying to pull in the weaker, more distant channels? Or with the high-input unit all would be fine anyway?

I thank you again!

[tigerbangs]

If you do not plug in a preamplifier to the AC power, it effectively becomes a signal TRAP, and won't pass anything but the very strongest local stations, so that's not an option. The Winegard HDP-269 is an excellent preamplifier, it has low inherent noise and very high signal input capability: I recommend it highly: it will power 4 TV tuers without a problem when used with a high-quality 4 way splitter.

[Binford]

Well, I thought I'd return to report on how things turned out.

We got the antenna setup as a family Christmas gift to ourselves this year and after my neighbor and I got the tripod set up and realized we were WAY out of our league up on a 12:12 pitch roof, I called a roofing company to come out and finish the job for me this morning.

So here's how it looks now (in a light rain):




And a closer view:




I went with the recommended Winegard HD-7696P atop a Channel Master 9521A rotator and a Winegard HDP-269 preamp. I also attached to the tripod a 6G wire to ground the setup in case of static buildup or the odd lightning strike. The top of the mast stands about 17 feet above the peak of the garage roof, putting the antenna about 8 or 9 feet above the peak of the house roof. We now pick up the following channels, rock-solid:

4.1, 4.2
5.1, 5.2
7.1, 7.2
9.1, 9.2, 9.3
11.1
13.1, 13.2
16.1, 16.2
20.1, 20.2, 20.3, 20.4, 20.5
22.1, 22.2
33.1, 33.2, 33.3, 33.4
42.1
46.1, 46.2, 46.3, 46.4
51.1
73.1, 73.2, 73.3, 73.4

Thanks again, tigerbangs, for your suggestions, confirmation & education. It is very much appreciated!

Happy New Year!

-- Tim Taylor KE7VRR

[tigerbangs]

Thank you: great pictures and great information: I'm glad that it worked for you!
Happy New year!

[Binford]

I guess I spoke too soon about the "rock solid" signal I was getting. Now that I've spent some time with it, I honestly believe reception is no better than with my home-made TV-top antenna! Yes, I pull in a few extra stations, but the reception of most of the stations is just as choppy (if not worse) as it was with the TV-top antenna. And I'm at a complete loss as to why.

Okay, it's been rainy and windy out. But how could it possibly be that I get a choppy signal from a station a mere 19 miles away blasting its signal out at 1000kw with a monster 9-1/2 foot long antenna atop my roof pointed right at the transmitter, with a pre-amp to boot?

It seems to happen the worst on the higher-power network stations. ABC channel 4 (38) is 1000kw, NBC channel 5 (48) is 960kw and CBS channel 7 (39) is 1000kw. All 19 miles out. Independent affiliate of the local NBC channel 16 (31) is just as bad at 700kw, also 19 miles out. Yet PBS channel 9 (9) at 7.49kw and 20.3 miles away is one of the best channels I get!

Here's a break-down of the others:

UPN channel 11 (11) is also fine. That's at 12.6kw 20.3 miles away (apparently the same tower as channel 9, based on distance and bearing). The same transmission tower apparently also serves CW channel 22 (25) at 1000kw, which also comes in pretty well. At the same high-power as the big networks, according to one of the web sources I found.

FOX channel 13 (13) (7-1/2 miles away) transmitting at 27.7kw from about 60 degrees away from the Seattle stations--with the antenna still pointed at the Seattle stations--comes in better than the big networks. And FOX 13 comes in just fine when I point the antenna right at it.

Independent channel 20 (14) is 6.8 miles away at 90kw and comes in pretty well with the antenna pointed to Seattle and really well pointed at its tower.

PAX (ION) channel 33 (33) is also very good 33.7 miles away at 179kw. It even comes in well with the antenna pointed at channel 13, nearly 90 degrees away. Very little chop though when the antenna is pointed to the tower.

On the other hand, Independent Spanish-language channel 51 (50) is also 33.7 miles away at 240kw on the same bearing as channel 33 and doesn't come in very well. Not nearly as bad at the big networks, but not as good as 33.

Finally, 3ABN channel 73 is not on any list I can find, so I don't know where it's broadcasting from or at how much power. But it is coming in pretty well with the antenna pointed about due east.

With all the above, I can recognize no pattern. I thought maybe the pre-amp messed with the high-power stations, but channel 22 is supposedly at the same 1000kw and it comes in fine. Though perhaps it isn't really at that power since I notice 22.2 carries the same programming as 13.1.

A few points on how I'm defining these problems. When I say reception is very good, I mean there is hardly any break in the reception at all. Perhaps one brief hiccup every two or three minutes. "Not very well" would be a small hiccup every 30 seconds or so. The worst ones are hiccuping every 10 seconds or so.

I have tried turning the antenna 10 degrees at a time either direction of where I understand the tower to be in case I was off target, but this has had no notable effect.

All the antenna connections are as good as I could have made them, with all outdoor terminals protected with rubber boots, drip loops, etc., but since several stations come in fine while others don't, I tend to rule out bad connections as the culprit.

My best guess would be it's the pre-amp, but would it screw up a strong signal in the manner I'm experiencing? I'm really perplexed....

-- Tim Taylor KE7VRR

[tigerbangs]

I suspect that your issue is the preamp: it appears to be overloading on the UHF channels: you might try removing it from he system and see what happens. I think that you will be fine.