converter box scan reads - weak signal

[robertta]

Hi ya all-

I hooked up my converter box and was going through the steps for set-up and when I was doing the scan step, was showing weak signal on the screen. I went outside and physically turned the antenna as we repeated the scan process and still said weak signal. I then took the antenna and mounted it on the chimney [approximately 10" above chimney] and ran scan - same result. Everything from the outdoor antenna transformer to the cable connecting to the TV's are all brand new. My only guess is our four spruce trees in the yard that is interfering with the reception. Listed below is information you may need to try and help determine the issue. I also have called the CCA with no solution and talked with a electronics retail person [a place on the order of Radio Shack]. I'm stumped and logically it shouldn't be this hard.

- 49834 Michigan
-2 story farmhouse [old]
-4- 80' to 100' spruce trees less than 30' from house
-UHF/VHF multi-band antenna - no rotor, etc. [approximately 30 years old]
-coaxial cable [removed twin lead wire]
-1 - 2-way splitter [will upgrade to 3-way later]
-3 TV's [only two connected now, will upgrade later]
-splitter switch [to switch from TV to c-band satellite [analog] ]
-we live on a hill and can see trees below us for miles - highest point in the area
- we receive channels; 6 [WLUC-TV],13 [WMNU], 10 [WBUP]and 3 [WJMN-TV] as of now and with clear reception, antenna pointing in a northern direction [a little east or west] no problem. Antenna is stationary and we receive Lt. green, yellow and red zones of stations.

The cable circuit: Outdoor antenna, outdoor antenna transformer, coaxial cable to 2-way splitter, from port 1 of splitter goes to converter box, splitter switch and branches 1) to TV and branch 2) to c-band satellite. From port 2 of splitter, goes to converter box 2 to #2 TV.

What's wrong with the issue, like I said it shouldn't be that complicated or am I missing something right in front of me?
Why is the converter box scan process saying weak signal? Any and all comments would be appreciated.

Thank you for reading this,
Tina-

[tigerbangs]

I see a couple of issues here, first has to do with how your antenna is connected to the c-band satellite box, and secondly, the age and condition of your existing TV antenna. It's not clear to my why the TV signal from the antenna is sent to the c-band receiver. My first thought is that the c-band receoiver has an internal RF switch that switches from the antenna signal to the satellite signal when the satellite receiver is switched on: if that is the case, we may need a better wiring diagram to figure out an alternative for you. I would like to know how the satellite receiver connects to you TV sets: is it run via the same coaxial cable that feeds the TV sets? Or is it distributed by separate audio and video cables to the TV sets. It sounds to me as if you have several issues that may center around the way that the satellite receiver is connected, but we also need to address the TV antenna, and splitting the signal to the TV sets.

For me, the antenna part of the system is a lot clearer: if your antnna is really 30 years old, it's time to replace it with new equipment. All of your old analog stations are on VHF, and chances are good that it didn't take much to pick them up: it also sounds as if you never saw the FOX station which is on channel 19. After Feb 17, you will have 2 VHF digital stations and 2 UHF digital stations ( 3 stations if you count FOX 19). It's time to replace that old antenna with a modern VHF-high-band+UHF antenna and a preamplifier if you want to see all 3 TV sets connected. I would suggest a Winegard HD-7694 antenna along with a Winegard HDP-269 preamplifier installed in place of all your existing antenna equipment. Use all new coaxial cable, even if you replaced the cable in the past few years. The power supply of the preamp should be installed BEFORE you split the TV signal, and use a 1 gHz or better spec 4 way splitter to divide the signal. This will prepare you for adding the third, and possibly a fourth TV later on if you so desire. The preamplifier will give you enough juice to power all of the TV sets while preserving the signal from the antenna.

I can make better suggestions about how to connect your satellite receiver if I know specifically how the receiver fits into your existing system. Generally speaking, separate audio-video cables provide better picture and sound than distributing a satellite signal via RF-modulated coaxial cable. RF-modulated means that you watch the output of the satellite receiver by tuning your TV sets to a specific channel to watch the satellite signal rather than changing the input of the TV set to an audio-video input.

http://www.winegard.com
http://www.pctinternational.com/channel ... lation.pdf

[robertta]

Thank you for answering. I used paint to draw up a diagram as how I have it all tied in and will try to put the picture here as I don't know if it will work, I have never done this before but here goes: Can't get it to work, I don't know how you guys to it.

Well I'll just try an give you an imaginary picture. Let's start with the c-band satellite [connected in line with main TV only]-

From dish outside, the main cable runs to back of receiver [analog], on back of receiver there is a, I'll call it a port, "VHF out to" port, this is where I have a 1 wire short cable [came with receiver] going into the "cable side" input of the "splitter switch". Period, done with satellite. Now I have nothing connected into the "VHF from antenna into" port on the back of the satellite receiver. Again my receiver is analog. As far as the satellite goes come February 19th, I have no plans to get a digital receiver, I will still have what I want to see on satellite that is broadcasting analog and digital.

Now the main TV circuit, again starting from the rooftop antenna goes like this;
- Antenna, transformer,
- coaxial cable into to 2-way splitter,
- out from splitter in to converter box,
- out from converter box in to "antenna side" input of the "splitter switch",
- and then from the "splitter switch" directly to TV[total footage of coaxial cable - 75'].

When I turn on local channels I just put the "splitter switch" on the "antenna" side and if I want to watch something off of satellite I put the "splitter switch" on the "cable" side. Everything is fine. I took the converter box out of the circuit line I set up because it doesn't do any good with it inline analog or scanning. Also no, we never got FOX 19 and if I'm not mistaken it is in the blue zone, so maybe our antenna doesn't accommodate that zone.

I have no problem investing in any equipment to get this converter box to scan and save channels I am entitled if this is the case and I am sure you are more educated than I. So please do not take this next statement offensive. I was googling antenna and ran across a web-site that allow to do a free digital TV antenna selector based on common circumstances. My end result was a Winegard HD7080P antenna, Channel Master 9521 rotor and an AP8700 preamplifier [reason being I have a 2-way splitter and my coaxial cable runs less than 100' from antenna to furthest TV]. What I will for sure get is a new antenna and a preamplifier. I just want to make sure I am getting the right one. I hope you understand and again not be offended by this. And if anyone is to blame it would be me for not giving all information required.

Last thing I wanted to state is regarding your last paragraph in your reply which I understand but doesn't make any sense is the way I had it set up before without the "splitter switch", yes I had to turn to channel 3 before I could view satellite channels. Now with the "splitter switch" inline I can use any local channel that I'm watching and just slide the switch to "cable" and instantly am watching satellite TV. Go figure.

Well I hope I gave you the information you needed and in the mean time I will check out your links.

Thank you so much,
Tina-

[tigerbangs]

As far as yor choice of TV antenna, rotator and amplifier: the HD-7080P is the same antenna as the HD-7694P I usggested to you EXCEPT that the 7694P does not pick up low-band VHF. That omission will make no difference to you as you will have no low-band VHF after Feb 17. Yes, I suggest the rotator, because you will need to turn the antenna to see FOX and a couple of other weak stations in your area. As for the choice of a preamp, you are on the cusp of overloading the AP-8700 at your location: the HDP-269 has higher input capability and won't overload, otherwise, I think tyou are on the right track.

As for your satellite system, I would like to see a diagram if it's at all possible. I will PM my e-mail address to you if that's easier to do. I think that there may be a wiring mistake that is lowering your digital signals , but I need to see how the system is setup to be sure.

[tigerbangs]

When I looked at the diagram that you provided, it appears that your connection is good: you are feeding the converter box before any of the satellite equipment. I suspect that your issue is just low signal strength, since your antenna is very old and your cabling is probably shot. You also have no preamplifier to make up for line losses. If you use the equipment that I suggested, you should have no problems getting your local digital signals. I strongly suggest that you use this opportunity to replace ALL your existing coaxial cable with new RG-6u ocax, and replace your splitter with a 1 gHz of better 2 way splitter. Poor quality splitters can attenuate UHF signals, and make your digital reception much more of a chore than it otherwise has to be!

[robertta]

Thank you so much Tigerbangs for your expertise knowledge that helps the homeowner. This antenna department would be the bottom of my priority list. Not out of pure ignorance but that I am very busy homeschooling my son, a owner/operator of a dairy farmer, bookkeeper, etc, etc, etc....., and on top of the cake I only see my husband on weekends if he works in the area. So watching TV is a rarity! Again hats off to all of you that take your personal spare time to help us homeowners out!!! One last thing I should have gone into more detail on is the new things I bought and installed stated in my very first post and that is the cable. I bought RG-6u ocax coaxial cable and installed it in December 2008 so I should be good regarding the cable. As far as the 2-way splitter I bought and ended up disconnecting because of poor reception now [again all purchases were in December 2008], that was a typical Magnavox brand from Menards. There is no hertz rating on the splitter or the package and I will return that and get the 1 ghz or better as you stated. I found a place to get the whole antenna system and will be purchasing that shortly. Otherwise hopefully I am good to go once I get the converter box back inline.

God Bless
Tina