Antenna advice 54001

[Gopack]

My approx cooridnates: 45.302482,-92.393003 (Amery, WI)
Antenna approx 25-30ft from ground, mounted on roof top. Not surrounded by heavy forrest, but surrounding area is wooded with some tall trees.

Earlier this year I bought a Sony KDL-46Z4100 and dropped my local cable in favor of Directv. I get Minneapolis and St paul stations as my locals on the dish, but I would really prefer to have Eau Claire, WI stations, mainly for getting the Packers games on Fox WEAU, which by the looks of TVfool seems to me to be very likely I can get. The secondary channel I would like to get is CBS WKBT, but I realize that is 98 miles away, and very unlikely I can get it. No big loss if I can't, it would just be nice.

I have a 30 year old antenna in my attic and tried to hook up to that, but got zero channels, not surprising since the roof now has 2 layers of shingles. Next, I bought an older, but fairly large outdoor antenna about 12ft x 9ft, from craigslist. I put it on my roof where an older unused, maybe 10-15 year old, satellite mount was still located. I used the old coax that was still there, a double coax, to connect to my TV. I would estimate that the cable length is about 30ft from antenna to TV.

I pointed the antenna generally toward Eau Claire. I didn't get any Eau Claire channels. In fact, no matter what direction I turned the antenna, I picked up all of the Minneapolis/ St Paul channels, but no Eau Claire channels. I tried what this old guy who sold me the antenna called a "kicker", which I assume is a preamp. It was kind of cheap looking and connected at the antenna, then where it come into the house, and was plugged in. I lost stations using that thing, so I removed it. I also tried a Radio Shack pre amp, one that only connects in the house, not by the antenna. I saw no change using it, although, I cant figure out if my TV has a signal strength feature, seems like I can only see if I get the channels or not, which seems odd, because it is a pretty feature packed TV. Guess I need to read the instructions again.

Anyway, I figured I did the trial and error thing, and thought I would ask those of you who know, what antenna I should get. I was looking at maybe the Winegard HD7698P from amazon. Are there other, better, and/or cheaper options I should consider? Can I get by using that older coax, or would I benefit by using a new cable? Would I benefit using a preamp with only 30 ft or so of cable?

Also, I could probably extend where the antenna is mounted to get the antenna maybe 10-15ft higher if that would help.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

[tigerbangs]

when I look at your TVFool report based on the coordinates that yu gave me, it would appear that WEAU-DT is a no-go. WEAU measures a noise margin of -5.5 at your location at a distance of 82 miles. I wouldn't ever promise consistant reception at that distance unless you were willing to put up a 100' tower and use a diamond 4-VHF high-band yagi array. Such an undertaking would be very expensive, and is probably not practical.

[Gopack]

I'm sorry, I see I made a mistake. I meant that the fox channel I want to get is WEUX-DT, which is 42.6 miles away.

Thanks so much for your help, Tigerbangs. I have been doing more research in the forums and notice that you often recommend the 91XG over the antenna I was looking at. As of right now, I really only care to get WEUX, (for Packers games), so Im assuming I shouldn't need a rotor. I'm only going to one tv right now, so I'm not splitting the signal.

I may want to upgrade the setup in the future, by adding a rotor to get the minneapolis channels, and splitting the signal to another tv.

With that in mind, what equipment and antenna would you recommend?

Also, how much difference does the coax cable make...would I see a difference upgrading to something other than what was left over from the old satellite?

Thanks again!

[tigerbangs]

I would try an AntennasDirect XG-91 aimed at WEUX. I wouldn't use a preamplifier at first, because of your proximity to the MSP stations.

[Gopack]

Ok, thanks! I will try that. Sorry for all the questions, but I do have one more if you don't mind. Can I use the old antenna that picks up the Minneapolis channels, and the new 91XG picking up Eau Claire stations together? Would I use a 2 into 1 adapter, or is there a better way to do that? Thanks again.

[tigerbangs]

If you use the old antenna, you will need a Channel Master Jointenna tuned fo channel 49 (WEUX'S real frequency) They are available through Amazon or from Summit Source. Aim the XG-91 at 123 degrees, and your old antenna at 243 degrees. Under the circumstances, I would also add a Winegard HDP-269 preamplifier ather the JoinTenna to minimize line losses.

The satellite cable is OK, but I would suggest rpplacin the "F" fittings on the cable: strip the cable back to clean copper, and use the very best compression fittings that you can find.

[Gopack]

Thanks again for the great advice, Tigerbangs. I trust your suggestion and will do my best to follow it, although I am having difficulty finding a jointenna set for channel 49.

But I am curious as to why I would need a jointenna and not just a combiner to do the job. My logic (as wrong as it may be) is that the old antenna picked up Minneapolis high vhf and uhf pretty well, but didn't touch Eau Claire, and the new antenna being highly directional pointed at Eau Claire (WEUX), should only receive those channels, I didn't think that the incoming signals would interfere with each other using a combiner.

Again, I really appreciate your help, and I do trust your judgement on these things. I have enjoyed reading through these forums and I am just finding all of this very interesting. Under what circumstances would using a combiner be ok, and when does a jointenna become necessary?

[tigerbangs]

You need the filtering of the Jointenna because you will have direct and reflected signal arriving at the TV tuner from channel 49 at the same time, and that will play havoc with the tuner's ability to decode a digital stream.

[Gopack]

Interesting, thanks. Is the only time a combiner should be used then is for a uhf antenna and a vhf antenna?

Now I'm having trouble finding the jointenna that I need. I came across this at warrenelectronics.com referencing the Channel Master Jointenna:

"NOTE: All channels from 30-49 have been discontinued

by the factory. We do still have the following channels

in this range in stock: 34 & 36"

Just my luck! oh well, back to square one. I don't really need Minneapolis, since I get those stations with my dish, but they are my closest stations for weather, and I thought it would be nice to have them OTA in severe weather situations when the dish loses signal. I suppose my options are a rotor and a vhf antenna to go with the uhf antenna, or maybe I could run 2 cables in separately to a coax switch, unless I'd lose too much going through a switch.

[tigerbangs]

You can try joining the antennas using a simple coaxial splitter: you MIGHT be OK...